The brand new genealogists every consider it high one to Nicholas’ spouse Clementia are provided right here because, under regular points, she’d not be stated. Whenever Susanna within particular later on time gotten out to a special protector, brand new partner of these protector wasn’t mentioned.
This should indicate that Queen John spent a bit here and you may the possibility of a keen amorous liaison which have Clementia exists
Below let me reveal a theory state-of-the-art because of the particular eminent genealogists, but it is fair to state that the latest findings was hotly contested!
Which idea results in an excellent and you may curious ‘twist’ on tale from Joanna, that could notice fans from HBD!
On top, there would be nothing to recommend any connection within hostage, Susanna regarding Wales and Clementia, partner off Nicholas de- Verdun. However, the feel of some genealogists with foreign hostages, including youths, has been which they was basically will placed that have friends, if any was basically readily available.
Bouncing forward to 1236, there is an entrance on the Tewkesbury annals hence relates to Joanna’s mom as the “King Clemencie!” They checks out in part:
Today, it is known that the mom regarding Joanna try named Clementia (Clemence?
In this instance the new monk is plainly indulging when you look at the gothic legalism. Ahead of their own dying, Joanna was legitimised by the Pope. On such basis as you to definitely legitimisation, the Tewksbury monk obviously took they upon themselves to elevate Joanna’s mommy to your status away from Queen, because if their unique mommy had been King John’s spouse! It is a fact not, one King John and you will Clementia were never hitched. Of the discussing Joanna’s mom just like the “Queen” Clementia, brand new monk exactly who filed Joanna’s demise is actually appearing his significant respect to have Joanna, but not wanting to change the correct situations.
As for the title from Clementia de Verdun, Paget suggests that she are the daughter regarding Roger de Dauntsey, from Wiltshire. You to definitely genealogist considers it significant that Clementia hailed off Wiltshire since he has realized that Queen John got an effective connection to help you you to definitely state, they being the house off his best allies, this new Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists have CharmCupid mobile discovered the term ‘Clementia’ is really rare certainly English noblewomen of the period. In a single table regarding women’s names that was obtained, there had been just one or two occurrences of your own term “Clementia” away from a total of 1407 feamales in this new try! The fact that anybody named Clementia might possibly be for the Susanna is high.
Very! The evidence is actually suggestive, but not definitive, one for the 1228, Susanna, as a great hostage, received over to the fresh new proper care of their particular maternal grandma, today partner away from Nicholas de- Verdun!!
The new Scottish genealogists of MacDuffs’ hold that Susanna ferch Llywelyn was created 1214 from inside the Gwynnedd, Wales and you can passed away c. 1259 during the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife in the 1230 along with a couple pupils: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl out-of Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.
However, there are restrict objections to all so it conjecture! Queen John got of several mistresses and maybe possibly eight illegitimate pupils. The mother regarding Joanna could have been born circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself came into this world circa 1191 (fourteen years old during their particular marriage to Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh known legitimate child out-of Nicholas de Verdun with his wife Clementia came into this world circa 1210-1213. If the Clementia was the caretaker regarding Joanna, she’d are located in their later 30’s, very early 40’s when giving birth to help you Rohese! Not impossible, specific state, but improbable.